- Registriert
- 21 Nov 2005
- Beiträge
- 2.707
Liebe alle,
ich bereite gerade einige 100 Hülsen vor, sie sind kalibriert und gekürzt.
Die normale Waschmaschine habe ich nicht benutzt, da war mir die Unwucht suspekt.
Also werden sie ins Ultraschallbad kommen, doch was als Putzmedium?
Ich habe bei Accurate Shooters das hier gefunden (teilweise übersetzt):
Die ideale Zusammensetzung der Reinigungslösung ergab glänzendes Messing, frei von Verbrennungsresten, innen wie aussen. Sogar die Verbrennungsreste an Schulter und Zündkanal wurden entfernt. Altes, schwarzes Messing kam heraus wie neues.
Für “Billig und Sauber” benutzte ich folgende Mischung:
Billig und Sauber
24 Minuten - 50% Essig + 1 Spritzer Abwaschmittel auf 250 ml Wasser
8 Minuten - Backpulver und Wasser (1 grain Backpulver auf 30 ml Wasser)
8 Minuten – Heisses Wasser
8 Minuten - Destilliertes Wasser
Total: 48 Minuten
Kosten: Weniger als $2.00 pro 3.5 L
Und für super glänzend und schnell, Add BC Solution
Since the BC solution had worked so well to shine up the cases earlier, I attempted to work it in with the vinegar procedure to streamline it even more and give even better looking brass. So for a couple dollars more, you can have 100% clean cases, which are even shinier than the "Cheap and Clean" procedure above. So this procedure I'll call "Clean and Shiny."
CLEAN and SHINY
24 minutes - 50% Vinegar + 1 Drop Dish Soap per 8 ounces water
380 seconds - Birchwood Casey (BC) Case Cleaner
380 seconds - Hot Water
380 seconds - Distilled Water
Total: 43 minutes
Cost: $2.00 per gallon for the Vinegar and $4.00 per gallon for BC Cleaner.
This "Clean and Shiny" procedure gave me the best combination of carbon removal, case luster, speed, and economy. The "Clean and Shiny" regimen also eliminates the neutralization step, as the BC cleaner acts as a neutralizer. Even though it contains a few acids, they must rinse off more readily than vinegar. Regular household vinegar is 5% acetic acid (2.5% when diluted) and the BC cleaner contains 3 different acids, one of which is phosphoric (the same found in pepsi). It starts at over 50% acid as a concentrate, and a little over 3% when diluted.
Case Care Following Ultrasonic Cleaning
After removing the cases from the final distilled water rinse, I simply blow them out with compressed air and lay them on a paper towel to dry overnight. A hair dryer works well too, especially if you get the air in the case mouth. In the morning you have clean, shiny dry brass ready to size. If you have no air compressor, simply whip them around by hand a few times to force any water drops out of the case mouth. Then lay them on a paper towel to dry overnight.
CONCLUSION--It Was Well Worth the Effort
Though I wasted some money on solutions that performed poorly, I am happy with the results so it was worth it. I never thought I would be able to make dirty, fired brass look like new again! I've now processed many 308s and some 8X 6.5-284 cases using the "Cheap and Clean" process, and I’m very satisfied with the fact that I can almost see my reflection inside the case!
Believe it or not, there was no physical work involved in cleaning the cases, just the right solutions and a bit of time in the Ultrasonic. So, quit wasting your time with vibratory tumblers or manual labor and try my protocol with an ultrasonic unit of your choice.
WARNING: The unit makes a noise that is not real friendly to your ears, so make sure to run it in a place that wont annoy the others in your household. It isn’t loud, just annoying--but no more annoying that a running tumbler!
Ultrasonic Cleaning--How to Get the Best Results
Reader "Gunamonth" has a great deal of experience with ultrasonic cleaning methods, perfecting his skills on small 17-caliber cases that are very difficult to clean with conventional brushing or tumbling. Here are his tips for getting better, faster results from your ultrasonic cleaning sessions.
Gunamonth's Ultrasonic Cleaning Tips
I thought it might be helpful to understand some of the principles involved and maybe how to stay out of trouble. I've noted that some members have observed that their brass comes out "too clean" or has a rough surface when finished. Here are some ways to avoid those potential problems
The Chemistry
Both metals used in brass cases (copper and zinc) are soluble in acetic acid (vinegar). The salts, copper acetate and zinc acetate, are also soluble. Zinc is more soluble than copper so it dissolves faster. In addition a galvanic action occurs that cause copper to be dissolved and then redeposited on the surface at the expense of the zinc.
When you clean brass cases in a vinegar solution you change both the chemical and physical properties of the surface of the case. There have been comments about cases being too clean, primers hard to seat, deposits on mandrels, etc. When you change the surface by dissolving some of it and etching it these things will happen. Whether they happen to the point of being a problem becomes the issue.
This doesn't mean that you shouldn't use acetic acid or that there is anything wrong with Jason's approach. Anything used to clean brass chemically is going to have some effect on the surface and it sure beats trying to get residue out of the flash hole of a 17 Remington with a brush.
Beaker Selection
I suggest you use one beaker and make it the largest you can fit in your ultrasonic unit. This gives more surface area for the tank water to work on and reduces the attenuation the beaker causes. Also, if you're in the market for beakers look for Kimax brand rather than Pyrex. Kimax is about 30% thinner and attenuates the ultrasound less.
How to Achieve Better Results
To minimize the effect on the brass there are some things you can do, most of which attempt to reduce the amount of time the cases spend in the acetic acid:
1. Keep the cleaning solution cool. In other words don't use hot water to mix up the vinegar solution. My ultrasonic tank is in the garage which isn't air conditioned so when I use it in the summer I empty the tank and fill it with cold water.
2. Clean a rather small number of cases at a time. I do about fifteen 17 Remingtons at a time. They're as clean as they're gonna' get in less than four minutes. I've tried as many as 100 at a time and it takes a very long time. Brass is pretty good at absorbing ultrasonic energy and too many cases translates to too little energy per case to clean quickly.
3. Keep the cleaning system "tuned". The unit I have has a tank that is about 5X10X5 inches. I cut a piece of Plexiglas to cover it and cut a hole the size of a 600ml beaker with a fly cutter. I made a collar for the beaker out of plastic foam that fits very snugly so the beaker can be raised or lowered. By adjusting the level of water in the tank, liquid in the beaker and depth of the beaker in the water it can be "tuned" so that the liquid in the beaker appears to boil while the water in the tank is calm. It only takes a few minutes and has a major effect on how long it takes to get them clean.
4. Don't let the beaker touch the any part of the tank, especially the bottom where the transducer is. The idea is to cause the brass to oscillate, not the container.
Ihr kennt sicherlich die Schwierigkeit der passenden Zutaten, namentlich die Übersetzung und dann das Finden des Ersatzprodukts. Klar, das kann ich machen.
Aber:
habt ihr eine simple Empfehlung?
Herzlichen Dank an jeden Input!
ich bereite gerade einige 100 Hülsen vor, sie sind kalibriert und gekürzt.
Die normale Waschmaschine habe ich nicht benutzt, da war mir die Unwucht suspekt.
Also werden sie ins Ultraschallbad kommen, doch was als Putzmedium?
Ich habe bei Accurate Shooters das hier gefunden (teilweise übersetzt):
Die ideale Zusammensetzung der Reinigungslösung ergab glänzendes Messing, frei von Verbrennungsresten, innen wie aussen. Sogar die Verbrennungsreste an Schulter und Zündkanal wurden entfernt. Altes, schwarzes Messing kam heraus wie neues.
Für “Billig und Sauber” benutzte ich folgende Mischung:
Billig und Sauber
24 Minuten - 50% Essig + 1 Spritzer Abwaschmittel auf 250 ml Wasser
8 Minuten - Backpulver und Wasser (1 grain Backpulver auf 30 ml Wasser)
8 Minuten – Heisses Wasser
8 Minuten - Destilliertes Wasser
Total: 48 Minuten
Kosten: Weniger als $2.00 pro 3.5 L
Und für super glänzend und schnell, Add BC Solution
Since the BC solution had worked so well to shine up the cases earlier, I attempted to work it in with the vinegar procedure to streamline it even more and give even better looking brass. So for a couple dollars more, you can have 100% clean cases, which are even shinier than the "Cheap and Clean" procedure above. So this procedure I'll call "Clean and Shiny."
CLEAN and SHINY
24 minutes - 50% Vinegar + 1 Drop Dish Soap per 8 ounces water
380 seconds - Birchwood Casey (BC) Case Cleaner
380 seconds - Hot Water
380 seconds - Distilled Water
Total: 43 minutes
Cost: $2.00 per gallon for the Vinegar and $4.00 per gallon for BC Cleaner.
This "Clean and Shiny" procedure gave me the best combination of carbon removal, case luster, speed, and economy. The "Clean and Shiny" regimen also eliminates the neutralization step, as the BC cleaner acts as a neutralizer. Even though it contains a few acids, they must rinse off more readily than vinegar. Regular household vinegar is 5% acetic acid (2.5% when diluted) and the BC cleaner contains 3 different acids, one of which is phosphoric (the same found in pepsi). It starts at over 50% acid as a concentrate, and a little over 3% when diluted.
Case Care Following Ultrasonic Cleaning
After removing the cases from the final distilled water rinse, I simply blow them out with compressed air and lay them on a paper towel to dry overnight. A hair dryer works well too, especially if you get the air in the case mouth. In the morning you have clean, shiny dry brass ready to size. If you have no air compressor, simply whip them around by hand a few times to force any water drops out of the case mouth. Then lay them on a paper towel to dry overnight.
CONCLUSION--It Was Well Worth the Effort
Though I wasted some money on solutions that performed poorly, I am happy with the results so it was worth it. I never thought I would be able to make dirty, fired brass look like new again! I've now processed many 308s and some 8X 6.5-284 cases using the "Cheap and Clean" process, and I’m very satisfied with the fact that I can almost see my reflection inside the case!
Believe it or not, there was no physical work involved in cleaning the cases, just the right solutions and a bit of time in the Ultrasonic. So, quit wasting your time with vibratory tumblers or manual labor and try my protocol with an ultrasonic unit of your choice.
WARNING: The unit makes a noise that is not real friendly to your ears, so make sure to run it in a place that wont annoy the others in your household. It isn’t loud, just annoying--but no more annoying that a running tumbler!
Ultrasonic Cleaning--How to Get the Best Results
Reader "Gunamonth" has a great deal of experience with ultrasonic cleaning methods, perfecting his skills on small 17-caliber cases that are very difficult to clean with conventional brushing or tumbling. Here are his tips for getting better, faster results from your ultrasonic cleaning sessions.
Gunamonth's Ultrasonic Cleaning Tips
I thought it might be helpful to understand some of the principles involved and maybe how to stay out of trouble. I've noted that some members have observed that their brass comes out "too clean" or has a rough surface when finished. Here are some ways to avoid those potential problems
The Chemistry
Both metals used in brass cases (copper and zinc) are soluble in acetic acid (vinegar). The salts, copper acetate and zinc acetate, are also soluble. Zinc is more soluble than copper so it dissolves faster. In addition a galvanic action occurs that cause copper to be dissolved and then redeposited on the surface at the expense of the zinc.
When you clean brass cases in a vinegar solution you change both the chemical and physical properties of the surface of the case. There have been comments about cases being too clean, primers hard to seat, deposits on mandrels, etc. When you change the surface by dissolving some of it and etching it these things will happen. Whether they happen to the point of being a problem becomes the issue.
This doesn't mean that you shouldn't use acetic acid or that there is anything wrong with Jason's approach. Anything used to clean brass chemically is going to have some effect on the surface and it sure beats trying to get residue out of the flash hole of a 17 Remington with a brush.
Beaker Selection
I suggest you use one beaker and make it the largest you can fit in your ultrasonic unit. This gives more surface area for the tank water to work on and reduces the attenuation the beaker causes. Also, if you're in the market for beakers look for Kimax brand rather than Pyrex. Kimax is about 30% thinner and attenuates the ultrasound less.
How to Achieve Better Results
To minimize the effect on the brass there are some things you can do, most of which attempt to reduce the amount of time the cases spend in the acetic acid:
1. Keep the cleaning solution cool. In other words don't use hot water to mix up the vinegar solution. My ultrasonic tank is in the garage which isn't air conditioned so when I use it in the summer I empty the tank and fill it with cold water.
2. Clean a rather small number of cases at a time. I do about fifteen 17 Remingtons at a time. They're as clean as they're gonna' get in less than four minutes. I've tried as many as 100 at a time and it takes a very long time. Brass is pretty good at absorbing ultrasonic energy and too many cases translates to too little energy per case to clean quickly.
3. Keep the cleaning system "tuned". The unit I have has a tank that is about 5X10X5 inches. I cut a piece of Plexiglas to cover it and cut a hole the size of a 600ml beaker with a fly cutter. I made a collar for the beaker out of plastic foam that fits very snugly so the beaker can be raised or lowered. By adjusting the level of water in the tank, liquid in the beaker and depth of the beaker in the water it can be "tuned" so that the liquid in the beaker appears to boil while the water in the tank is calm. It only takes a few minutes and has a major effect on how long it takes to get them clean.
4. Don't let the beaker touch the any part of the tank, especially the bottom where the transducer is. The idea is to cause the brass to oscillate, not the container.
Ihr kennt sicherlich die Schwierigkeit der passenden Zutaten, namentlich die Übersetzung und dann das Finden des Ersatzprodukts. Klar, das kann ich machen.
Aber:
habt ihr eine simple Empfehlung?
Herzlichen Dank an jeden Input!